Posted 2/6/2012 10:13 pm
i'm saying reduced costs do not mean increased profits as you imply. in a competitive market, costs drop and profits do not appear. look at nearly perfectly competitive markets like those for DRAM chips for example.
DDR3 WILL BE A BOON FOR THE MONOPLIST MEMORY MANUFACTURERS!
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union aircraft worker: very expensive, feels entitled to health care, retirement plan, and cannot lose job for anything but setting fire to the building with a blowtorch. so he does the bare minimum and gets paid an above market wage while flipping the finger to the man.
non-union worker: not as expensive, gets lesser health care without chiropractic and orthodontics, fends for himself in retirement, and can lose his job immediately if he does anything terribly stupid. does the bare minimum and gets paid a market wage while flipping the finger to the man.
you really think that whether a person takes pride in their work, is qualified to do it, or does a quality job has anything to do with their union status?
show me the statistics that prove union labor produced automobiles are of higher quality according to JD Power than those produced by non-union labor, by make and model and producing factory status.
you'd need to comb through all that and show me that unionized labor consistently correlates with higher quality to a degree more significant than non-unionzed labor.
you cannot.
unions do produce something, but it is not higher quality.
Posted 2/6/2012 10:43 pm
Has it ever occurred to you that some stuff is difficult to build? It may require some trial and error, some reworking, even some rebuilding to get done.
Ah, I see you are of the new business thinking where stressed and desperate workers are more productive. Where all that matters is the rich get richer and fuck everyone else and the horse they rode in on. GO ROMNEY !
I don't really know whether this project is worse or better than any other Boeing project. What I know is that even if this project fails, there's not much competition (that hasn't fucked up already) to farm the next aircraft project to either.
what i said was that unions do not produce higher quality, and they do not.
they do produce higher wages for union workers.
the question is what is the goal. the other poster implied that quality was low because non-union workers were used, and i am certain that is not true.
it's a red herring intended to obfuscate the real issue which is : what is a fair wage for manufacturing labor?
if the goal is higher manufacturing labor wages, unionization does accomplish that. i did not say that was a good or a bad thing. all i said was that unionization does not lead to higher quality, which was the original assertion.
i love how pro-union folks who clearly are after higher non-skilled wages will say it's all about quality. if you present them with facts they'll then shift into a class warfare argument.
just start where the argument belongs which is a class warfare argument. that's really all that it is anyway.
but do please stop pretending that it's a quality argument.
This is correct. Recently I have been forced to study WHY Germany is having a very nice economy and my country (UK) is not. When I say "the unions are amazingly strong in Germany" you probably imagine that means "so the management are amazingly pissed off about that."
Not actually the case. Everyone gets along very fine together and the whole country is rolling in cash.
Cut a long story short some years ago we (UK) decided to try and adopt the US business model. Ironically this is generally called the "Anglo-Saxon" business model. It is defective and doesn't work. There are two other models in widespread use in Europe and the Germans have perfected one of them the "Rhineland" model. Instead of blah blah unions and blah blah management what happens is that everyone focuses on MONEY and how to get it. Surprise Surprise! they have got a lot of money and we don't. Cunts.
Oh I know what you are getting at. But I'm also just as sure sure you are anti-union. Maybe you are just being a devils advocate. I know of no studies to prove or disprove which group makes better products. Why not bring management into the equation? I think quality management is the key, with unions being in place to counter capital.
I've worked with Boeing, Airbus, Lockheed-Martin, P&W, Rolls-Royce, Northrop, etc...engineers. Boeing engineers rank near the bottom. The guys who designed and managed the the B-17, 707 and 747 programs have all retired.
Psst - there is no substitute for institutional knowledge and passion. Hiring some Cletus who desperately needs a job and just pushing him hard, doesn't really result in productivity.
