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  Someone I know who was totally broke got a little bit of money. Still no regular income. Decided the first thing to do was ...
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Unregistered

. said:Then there's predatory lending, very carefully designed with the advantage of asymmetric information to extract as much money from you as possible for as long as possible for no value in return, and if it cripples your future economic potential, so what? They're not paying for it.

That's not exactly a fine distinction, but many of those unemployed bloggers ranting on libertarian sites can't grasp it.



It's a pretty simple concept.

AVOID ALL DEBT.

If a person can't comprehend those 3 simple words, then they deserve to get ass-raped.

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Unregistered

. said:credit default swaps without reserves would work exactly as intended (swap triggered, counterparty unable to pay, oops) if it were not for government intervention in the aftermath.

government intervention is the PROBLEM and not the cure for debt run amok.



That too. When the US government backs AIG's bad credit default swaps, that creates a moral hazard, and future gamblers will take even greater risks with derivatives, since they just saw that the US government will back all their bad bets.

NO BAILOUTS.
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Unregistered

. said:It's a pretty simple concept.

AVOID ALL DEBT.

If a person can't comprehend those 3 simple words, then they deserve to get ass-raped.



You're still going to get financially sodomized.

There's a lot of money in the sidelines!
\
:lib: :jew: :repub:
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Unregistered

. said:
. said:Then there's predatory lending, very carefully designed with the advantage of asymmetric information to extract as much money from you as possible for as long as possible for no value in return, and if it cripples your future economic potential, so what? They're not paying for it.

That's not exactly a fine distinction, but many of those unemployed bloggers ranting on libertarian sites can't grasp it.



It's a pretty simple concept.

AVOID ALL DEBT.

If a person can't comprehend those 3 simple words, then they deserve to get ass-raped.



We know it's a simple concept, that was the whole part about not being able to grasp anything more complicated.

It's also a stupid concept. That's why no one who's been successful in the real world takes it seriously. Only unemployed bloggers ranting on libertarian sites hoping to scrape together a few nickels in ad views.
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Unregistered

. said:1) All those debt scams sprang up when the government lowered interest rates to boost the economy, because the government wanted people to borrow more money. The government should not encourage people to bury themselves with debt.

2) The collapse of CDOs and CDSs would have been fine, except that the US government decided on a big socialist bailout.

We should have avoided all government bailouts, and gone through the short-term cleansing period. It would have been better for the long run.

The biggest CDO gamblers like Bank of America & Citibank would have collapsed, responsible regional banks & community banks & TD Bank could buy up those assets for cheap and expand.

Capitalism only works when you go through the creative destruction process. NO BAILOUTS.

With bailouts, you're taking the country's resources to prop up the worst companies, with the worst managers, with the worst ideas. The result of bailouts is a weak economy for a very long time, which is what we're seeing now.

Plus, with bailouts, you see execs & bankers walking home every year with million dollar bonuses. And then when their bet collapses (2008), they get bailed out, they keep their jobs, and they go back to walking home every year with million dollar bonuses. Those mutherfuckers should have lost their jobs in bankruptcy!



False from the very first sentence. Predatory lending has been around for decades, regardless of the interest rate. (you do know the government doesn't set interest rates, a private bank does, right?)

Governments weren't going around telling :what: to buy homes they couldn't afford, with ARMs and hidden resets, because the price would keep going up. Suzanne did that.
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Unregistered

. said:We know it's a simple concept, that was the whole part about not being able to grasp anything more complicated.

It's also a stupid concept. That's why no one who's been successful in the real world takes it seriously. Only unemployed bloggers ranting on libertarian sites hoping to scrape together a few nickels in ad views.



Wrong. The keynesian personal debt-based model is what got us into the current situation.

In your bizarro world, having a financially responsible sustainable economy is "stupid".

I assure you that the keynesian personal debt-based model that has dominated the US economy for the last few decades is NOT sustainable. You can just look at all the data, and all the real world results.

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Unregistered

. said:Yes, but the master does. It's symbolic - it's the guy saying 'Listen pal, thanks for being there. I haven't given you much these last two years, but now I can'.

Your friend realises he owes the dog. He can't take him out for a beer and a pizza, so he does the next best thing.

I'm just speculating. As you say, it doesn't make sense, so you have to look at it froma differnt angle.




When I wha out of work, I took he dog o other the park or the beach every day. There was. Do it yourself grooming place that I would indulge in after the beach. But hat was six bucks. I gt ht our saying, when your down, little things can mean moar
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Unregistered

. said:Governments weren't going around telling :what: to buy homes they couldn't afford



Funny, I distinctly remember President Bush getting on national TV, and encouraging people to buy more homes, saying that government should encourage more home ownership.

And the government implements programs like freddie mac, fannie mae, mortage interest deduction, to encourage people to bury themselves with debt. All that shit should be eliminated (along with government backing of student loans).

And the Fed should NOT embrace the keynesian idea that it should try to manage economic booms & busts. It should NOT lower interest rates, to boost the economy with more debt. Monetary policy should simply be focused on keeping inflation low & stable.
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Unregistered

. said:False from the very first sentence. Predatory lending has been around for decades, regardless of the interest rate. (you do know the government doesn't set interest rates, a private bank does, right?)

Governments weren't going around telling :what: to buy homes they couldn't afford, with ARMs and hidden resets, because the price would keep going up. Suzanne did that.

Uhh...that's EXACTLY what the Bush administration was telling people to do. It was classic tulip mania designed to disguise deflationary wages.
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Unregistered

. said:
. said:We know it's a simple concept, that was the whole part about not being able to grasp anything more complicated.

It's also a stupid concept. That's why no one who's been successful in the real world takes it seriously. Only unemployed bloggers ranting on libertarian sites hoping to scrape together a few nickels in ad views.



Wrong. The keynesian personal debt-based model is what got us into the current situation.

In your bizarro world, having a financially responsible sustainable economy is "stupid".

I assure you that the keynesian personal debt-based model that has dominated the US economy for the last few decades is NOT sustainable. You can just look at all the data, and all the real world results.



Um, "keynesian personal debt model"? Keynes was a macroeconomist. You know, the kind concerned with the economy at a national or global scale, not "personal debt". Where do you ranters come up with this stuff? :lol:
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Unregistered

. said:
. said:Governments weren't going around telling :what: to buy homes they couldn't afford



Funny, I distinctly remember President Bush getting on national TV, and encouraging people to buy more homes, saying that government should encourage more home ownership.

And the government implements programs like freddie mac, fannie mae, mortage interest deduction, to encourage people to bury themselves with debt. All that shit should be eliminated (along with government backing of student loans).

And the Fed should NOT embrace the keynesian idea that it should try to manage economic booms & busts. It should NOT lower interest rates, to boost the economy with more debt. Monetary policy should simply be focused on keeping inflation low & stable.



I see you had to edit my quote in order to claim Bush was encouraging exactly that.

Link to Bush telling people to buy homes they couldn't afford, with ARMs and hidden resets, because the price would keep going up?
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Unregistered

. said:
Shiny New Kid said: What's wrong with $1.99 for a bottle of dog shampoo and having fun playing with the dog in the bathroom?



Well, for one thing it makes a big mess in your house that somebody has to clean. A dog groomer is worth it.



They are broke and have nothing but free time, you :clown:. Cleaning a bathroom takes, what, 30 minutes tops?
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Unregistered

. said:
. said:False from the very first sentence. Predatory lending has been around for decades, regardless of the interest rate. (you do know the government doesn't set interest rates, a private bank does, right?)

Governments weren't going around telling :what: to buy homes they couldn't afford, with ARMs and hidden resets, because the price would keep going up. Suzanne did that.

Uhh...that's EXACTLY what the Bush administration was telling people to do. It was classic tulip mania designed to disguise deflationary wages.



Again, Bush may have been a complete fuckup, but he didn't go out and encourage liar loans and home flipping. At best he's guilty of being stupid enough to believe the free-market dogma that says if you leave bankers and real estate brokers alone, they'll regulate themselves and there'll be lots of puppies and rainbows.
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Unregistered

. said:I don't understand the concept of "predatory lending". The banks are lending with collateral, ie the real estate being purchased. If they're not lending, it seems that the collateral is insufficient.

It seems to me the extraction is occurring in the markets themselves, which set these inflexible, inflated and unrealistic selling prices.



At some point, debt servicing eats up too much capital.

There use to be a national law against usury. Unsecured debt was limited on the amount of interest that could be charged. It was, I believe, capped at 6% over the prime rate. Credit card companies lobbied to get it removed, and presto! Everybody, including the dog, were given 5k limit credit cards. When you combine this with the CC/bank pushed 2006 BK law changes, it amounts to nothing less than predatory lending. They issue the credit, make it impossible to live without it, and then take everything they can before they release you. Quite a fucking scam.
Shiny New Kid
Revolution is the only solution

11697 posts

. said:I see you had to edit my quote in order to claim Bush was encouraging exactly that.

Link to Bush telling people to buy homes they couldn't afford, with ARMs and hidden resets, because the price would keep going up?



"Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan said Monday that Americans' preference for long-term, fixed-rate mortgages means many are paying more than necessary for their homes and suggested consumers would benefit if lenders offered more alternatives.

In a standing-room-only speech to the Credit Union National Association meeting here, Greenspan also said U.S. household finances appeared generally sound, despite rising debt levels and bankruptcy filings. Low interest rates and surging home prices have given consumers flexibility to manage debt, he said."

"American consumers might benefit if lenders provided greater mortgage product alternatives to the traditional fixed-rate mortgage," Greenspan said.

Joseph McKenzie, deputy chief economist at the Federal Housing Finance Board, says buyers like the stability of fixed-rate mortgages, but there is increasing flexibility in products. "There are lots of innovative programs, especially targeting low-income and first-time buyers," he says.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/fed/2004-02-23-greenspan-debt_x.htm

This was in 2004.
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Unregistered

Shiny New Kid said:
. said:I see you had to edit my quote in order to claim Bush was encouraging exactly that.

Link to Bush telling people to buy homes they couldn't afford, with ARMs and hidden resets, because the price would keep going up?



"Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan said Monday that Americans' preference for long-term, fixed-rate mortgages means many are paying more than necessary for their homes and suggested consumers would benefit if lenders offered more alternatives.

In a standing-room-only speech to the Credit Union National Association meeting here, Greenspan also said U.S. household finances appeared generally sound, despite rising debt levels and bankruptcy filings. Low interest rates and surging home prices have given consumers flexibility to manage debt, he said."

"American consumers might benefit if lenders provided greater mortgage product alternatives to the traditional fixed-rate mortgage," Greenspan said.

Joseph McKenzie, deputy chief economist at the Federal Housing Finance Board, says buyers like the stability of fixed-rate mortgages, but there is increasing flexibility in products. "There are lots of innovative programs, especially targeting low-income and first-time buyers," he says.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/fed/2004-02-23-greenspan-debt_x.htm

This was in 2004.



So, no link. :lol:

What's with you people who can't tell the difference between the Fed and the government? The Fed is a private bank. We already know the private banks were robbing the place blind.


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Unregistered

. said:I see you had to edit my quote in order to claim Bush was encouraging exactly that.

Link to Bush telling people to buy homes they couldn't afford, with ARMs and hidden resets, because the price would keep going up?



I'll spell it out for you.

1) Government implements programs like fannie mae, freddie mac, and mortgage interest deduction, which artificially inflates housing prices.

2) Bush goes on national TV, and said people should buy homes, and buying homes was a good thing.

3) As a result, when the average American follows Bush's advice, and wants to buy a home, the only way he can afford the artificially inflated home prices, is by loading up on debt.

Similar to government backing of student loans, causing skyrocketing tuition, and government officials saying everyone should get a college degree.

In all cases, government should not encourage people to bury themselves with debt.
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Unregistered

. said:What's with you people who can't tell the difference between the Fed and the government? The Fed is a private bank. We already know the private banks were robbing the place blind.



No, the fed is a quasi government-entity. Some officials are appointed by the government, and some officials are appointed by the private sector.
Shiny New Kid
Revolution is the only solution

11697 posts

. said:So, no link. :lol:

What's with you people who can't tell the difference between the Fed and the government? The Fed is a private bank. We already know the private banks were robbing the place blind.



Who appoints the Chairman of the Fed? You seem to think its the Board of the Fed.
Shiny New Kid
Revolution is the only solution

11697 posts

Oh, and by the way everyone, well done everyone for making a really interesting thread over a minor rant. There are still some brains here amid the tranny lovers and nazis
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Unregistered

. said:I see you had to edit my quote in order to claim Bush was encouraging exactly that.



Bush clearly says:

1) He wants EVERYBODY to own a home. What sort of big government nonsense is that? Americans should have the freedom to choose what they own. I don't want to own a home. I prefer the mobility & liquidity in renting, and investing the excess money.

In another speech, he defined owning a home as the "American dream", as if it were written in the constitution. Americans should have the freedom to have their own dreams. It's not the role of government to tell us what our dreams should be, and what we should buy.

2) He embraces GSEs like fannie mae & freddie mac as wonderful ways to bury people with mortgage debt.

3) He wants people with BAD CREDIT to be able to get mortgages, so they can buy homes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkAtUq0OJ68

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Unregistered

. said:Been there, done that. I was only to happy to grant her the request. And a year later, she is not a happy camper now, shockingly enough. Go figure.



If you are childless this is a good counter to :tfb:
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Unregistered

. said:
. said:I see you had to edit my quote in order to claim Bush was encouraging exactly that.



Bush clearly says:

1) He wants EVERYBODY to own a home. What sort of big government nonsense is that? Americans should have the freedom to choose what they own. I don't want to own a home. I prefer the mobility & liquidity in renting, and investing the excess money.

In another speech, he defined owning a home as the "American dream", as if it were written in the constitution. Americans should have the freedom to have their own dreams. It's not the role of government to tell us what our dreams should be, and what we should buy.

2) He embraces GSEs like fannie mae & freddie mac as wonderful ways to bury people with mortgage debt.

3) He wants people with BAD CREDIT to be able to get mortgages, so they can buy homes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkAtUq0OJ68



Did you even listen to your own video? He never says he wants EVERYBODY to own a home. Please, tell me the exact time in the video where he says that.

For that matter, tell me where he says bad credit shouldn't be a factor in whether you can get a mortgage. All I heard was he emphasized mortgages should be available to "deserving" families.

Bush was too fucking stupid to pull off the conspiracy you're claiming. He was incompetent, not evil. He fucked off his job and the banks took every advantage of it.
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Unregistered

Shiny New Kid said:
. said:So, no link. :lol:

What's with you people who can't tell the difference between the Fed and the government? The Fed is a private bank. We already know the private banks were robbing the place blind.



Who appoints the Chairman of the Fed? You seem to think its the Board of the Fed.



The Fed Chairman isn't an all-powerful post either. You might as well claim the President controls the decisions of the Supreme Court justices he appoints too.

Once again: the Fed is not the government.
KM.as.a.dot
Unregistered

. said:
Once again: the Fed is not the government.



Youre right. Any branch of the actual government is suborinate to the Fed.

Nobody gives a fuck about checks and balances when you control all the money.

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